The Ramayana: Rama, Ravana and the others

Afterwords, for special studies he took him to Varanasi. So at that time the most learned scholar in Varanasi was Acharya Shrestha Sanatan. He used to teach students. He was very learned. So as Tulsidas ji was very poor, so he studied as a "Bhratya Shishya" means that he did household chores of Guru's home and and used to teach also. So the other students that used to come, Some were students of tantra etc. They challenged Tulsidas ji to go on the cremation ground near Harish Chandra Ghat on a new moon night and put a nail in the ground, so we will believe your Bhakti for Hanuman to be true.

So at night when Tulsidas ji went out of his acharya's home and went till there. Because it is such an old incident , there were very less people It was dark and terrifying. So till the time he reached that cremation ground he composed the complete hanuman Chalisa. He reached there while composing it. He put the nail and blew conch 3 times. So it is believed that the place where he put the nail and blew conch shell, is the same place where Sankat mochan hanuman mandir is situated in Varanasi. I am not very sure. I would like the intellectual and learned people should find out about it. But because of this challenge, we all have got hanuman Chalisa by his grace.

Are Ram and Krishna Avtars of Vishnu? It is possible, I have no objection to it. But when we read the Ramayana of Valmiki, Valmiki Rishi said Ramachandra that he is the incarnation of Parbrahm Parmeshwar. And he considered the king to be the form of Vishnu, and he was a king. So he can also be called the incarnation of Vishnu. Regarding Krishna, there are three Bhaagwatas. Shrimad Bhaagwat, Devi Bhaagwat and Mahabhaagwat. So the two bhaagavatas, the Devi bhaagavata and the Mahabhaagavata, it is said that Kali himself incarnated as Krishna. That can also be true, because whatever is written in the Bhaagavat, as a Hindu, we accept it to be true.

HANUMAN FLIGHT

Katya has very interesting thought that when Hanuman Ji jumped to Lanka – he used that special type of mercury?

Guruji: probably.

but he could fly from his early childhood – why he was need to jump where instead of flying?

Guruji: there is more like a symbolic thing: you see – it is very simple for me.

Hanuman is an incarnation of Shiva and the son of the air element: so it means Hanuman is a symbol of prana. And the Sun is apana.

When prana jumps up from the earthly body to assimilate apana – then Rahu, which symbolizes the Kundalini, comes in between; and he informs the mind – Indra, all the senses are called indriyas; so the main principle among all indriyas are Indra – your mind; and with the stroke from the mind the prana goes into a coma – suspended animation. The air stops – vayu stops breathing. Then all gods appear and grants him boon. Kundalini awaken, the prana is inert and the mind is absolutely shivering in prana – that is symbolic story of this thing.

*Kundalini goes to the mind – Indra – who is supposed to be a main among indriyas: that’s why he is called Indra. And then he strikes prana with the thunderbolt on the chin. When mind is awaken, aroused, he will use his all electromagnetical force to strike down that thunder: that way prana will become inert, like in suspended animation. And a breath will stop. Chin is connected with the heart – you already know what does it mean. So the samadhi will follow, all gods will appear and will give him favors.

If he can fly to the sun – he doesn’t need to jump for hundred miles, he may fly – but he jumped. So flying up to the sun is more symbolic. Rahu symbolizes kundalini even in astrology.

tell us please more about Ravana clan?

Guruji: he was actually Brahmin, son of rishi Vaishravan, grandson of the rishi Pulastya – who was the very mighty rishi. Legend of Govardhan hill is connected with Pulastya rishi; they said that he carried Govardhan hill here. And the very interesting point: Ashwatthaman’s father’s name was Drona; and Govardhan hill’s father’s name was also Drona – there may be some connection. Ravana, grandson of Pulastya rishi, was rakshasa. We said rakshasa is the demon; but if you go by language, in Sanskrit – they came out of Brahma, when he was doing creation. One beings became to say: bhaksha, bhaksha – means “eat him!” and other beings say raksha, raksha – means “save him!” first beings became yakshas. And those who saying raksha, raksha became rakshasa – those, who protects. But with the time the real sense was twisted absolutely. We are very good in twisting the real things.

who are yakshas?

Guruji: they are holding all money and gold. If somebody is carrying all money and gold – you will agree, he can eat you also. I mean he is strong enough to eat.

but he also went through so much struggles and sufferings?

Guruji: but only because he did something great – he is worshipped today. If he would taking it easy without doing anything – who would remember him? suffering is nothing, suffering is just your test. The biggest plan which I come across, which I understood – because Sherlock Holmes was my disciple – Ravana, when he was going all over the world to conquer the world; it is recorded – I don’t remember the name of the ancestor of Shri Rama – Ravana killed him in a dwell. And when he was dying – the ancestor, the king – he cursed Ravana that my descendant will kill you one day. Ok? Now we come to the story of Rama. He was made exile from Ayodhya, he left Ayodhya for 14 years, he took help from no man – no human being; politically he was the most powerful man of that time. Sugriva became his aline and created an army of monkeys and bears and took the war to the gates of Ravana. I think – the human army of Ayodhya - they couldn’t match for Ravana’s rakshas army. But he kept it very safe in one place, took help from not a single human being from Ayodhya, started an army of monkeys and bears with monkeys and took it to Ravana. It looks like a very great plan for me. And when everything were done, they win the battle – then they come back. He is the only one example of such connection between human and monkey race. He was mighty enough to do it. He killed Valin and made Sugriva the king of all monkeys – so he had to owe him. they all had supernatural powers – to fight with rakshasas who already has magical powers. No human being could stood against them. He kept Ayodhya absolutely safe and take the battle here. He did the very great thing.

maybe he did that because the time of monkey race were coming to the end?

Guruji: maybe on the Earth 2-3 races of aliens were dominating that time; all those rakshasas and the supernatural monkeys and the bears – that was the time when the human beings establish the dominance and they had to leave. Look at it from this point of view. Human era begin from that point. Another point, which I have observing: before Rama only heavenly gods were worshipped. Rama was the first human incarnation, who was started to worship. Before that – no human being ever. Then Krishna was the human incarnation – and he’s still worshipped. Maybe the divinity come to human being after that.

You think, the era of humanity…

Guruji: started with Rama and Ravana. Even now it continues. The nature of human being is to criticize everybody; even Rama came after finishing Ravana as a victor – even then people criticize him. still we’re criticizing everyone – so the human era still continues. We’re always ready to criticize anyone – from politicians to the god, the divinity, some good men… we’re only afraid of criticizing a mafia boss; I’ve never heard anyone criticizing mafia boss, local or big one – never ever. Otherwise we’re supreme – we can criticize anyone.

I’ve heard that Ravana had such test?

Guruji: till that time he was not a devotee of Shiva; he was trying to lift Kailash and Shiva hold it just with big toe. First Ravana cried for centuries – it was a lake with his tears which is still there, Rakshastal it is called – then he try to praise Him. But Banasura’s story teaches us more. Now Banasura is one of the chief ganas, Mahakal, he is one of the inner circles to Shiva. And Ravana will come again as Revarnath – he will give extraordinary teachings to the world.

but finally the man killed him

Guruji: when Ravana conquered all the world, he fought with one of the forefathers of Rama and killed him in a battle. And when he was dying he cursed Ravana, that my descendant will kill you. It was duty of Rama to go and try to kill him – and he did it successfully.

Rama came to kill Ravana?

Guruji: only. No other mission. The creation never seen the war like that. Now Ravan will come as Revaarnath – he will be the 25 th tirthankar and give the special knowledge to humanity. Let’s hope he will come in our lifetime and we will have some knowledge. But ignorance is bliss – so we’re blissful already( laughing).

Ravana was the son of the rishi, but his mother were rakshasa; he was adopted by his maternal grandfather – so he became the king of rakshasa. After killing him Rama was had to do prayashchitta for killing a Brahmin.

and how Rama ended his life?

Guruji: he went to the Sarayu river – then nobody saw him. All main people and citizens – they just came into the water.

Lakshamana also?

Guruji: he disappeared; nobody knows, what happened to him. he went to the bank of the river Sarayu, everybody was looking at him – and he just disappeared. It is written, that he just let all five elements of the body to merge with the source of the elements - so he couldn’t be seen.

it was a long time after Sita went away?

Guruji: not much time, nearly immediately.

THE GAME ALWAYS NEEDS THE VILLAIN

if we compare Vashishtha and Vishwamitra: first is Brahmin by birth, second – no, but could he achieve same level?

Guruji: never. He killed 100 sons of Vashishtha, remember that.

but he did a lot of yoga practice, a lot of tapas?

Guruji: but the motive was revenge. Motive always remain primary.

in Yoga Vashishtha they are saying, that Vishwamitra became like Brahmin?

Guruji: LIKE Brahmin. His work was to create great confusion – which he did very successfully. Now he is one of the seven rishis.

he is like the opposite force?

Guruji: when there is a game – you need to have a villain to create some mischief and someone will try to solve it. Otherwise how all these immortals will pass their time? It gives some more interesting touch to the story.

FAIRY-TALE TIME

Rama was the embodiment of Vishnu ,

Guruji: every king was considered as the embodiment of Vishnu and Rama was a king also. But in Valmiki Ramayana it is written like Parabrahman Parameshwar . When we did enough research in the history – there was the time when brahman and Shiva was considered as the same word. And Shankarji – he is the first incarnation of Shiva. I think nobody else could kill Ravana, who was direct disciple of Shankar.

Shakti always creates the situations which cannot be understand in the beginning. Daksha Yagya was after all events in Ramayana. It was between Rama and Krishna incarnations. Most of the heavenly gods were defeated by those, who are living in smashan.

and some rishis were also beaten?

Guruji: most of the rishis – they were the sons of Brahma. They were creators of many heavenly gods, Kashyap rishi was the creator of different specific beings. But he was not beaten.

Bhrigu rishi?

Guruji: he was beat enough.

Atri rishi?

Guruji: he was nowhere mentioned. I think he is one of the greatest – father of Datta Guru. His wife Anasuya is amazing, most powerful being.

why this separation Rama from Sita happened?

Guruji: separation always brings out the best emotions in anyone. The true love is discovered only through the pain of separation.

it was the real existence of so much mystical beings?

Guruji: it was the fairy-tale time.

do You think it is possible for them to come again?

Guruji: I think it begins already. In last 20 years many different incidents have been recorded all over the world.

why Brahma, the divine being, has behavior like a human without control?

Guruji: that’s why hindus stopped to worship him.

GURU OF HANUMAN JI

Shiv drank the poison of the world to save it – when the ocean were churning. From that day title Mahadev is stuck with Him. after that – even if people were describing earlier events, they call Him Mahadev.

Nila –Lohita is more ancient?

Guruji: yes, it’s Rudra’s name – whose color is red and blue.

Shivji in Daksha yagya also stopped the sun worshipping?

Guruji: that was Indra and all heavenly gods, who were defeated. Sun was always considered the most powerful planet. He is among the gods also – but heavenly gods are gone. And not only from India – from everywhere. No Olympian god, no Egyptian god, no one. Sun was Guru of Hanuman; Hanumanji learned everything from him. story is: when he grew up – Sun agreed to be his Guru. Sun said: I cannot stop my travelling – so you will have to follow me, if you want to be my disciple. Hanumanji faced him and flew the same speed as the Sun were travelling. Astrologically speaking, Hanumanji became great siddha by influence of Saturn, Rahu and Sun. sun was his Guru and Rahu created all the situation.

what about Shani?

Guruji: Shani gave him a boon: whoever will worship you – I will not torture. He rescued Saturn from Ravana’s prison.

if Sun is so powerful god – why worshipping to him was stopped all over the world?

Guruji: maybe he didn’t like human sacrifices.

it exists the temples of other planets – except Shani and the Sun?

Guruji: yes, they are called navagraha temples.

RENOUNCING

OF RAMA

When

Rama was discussing with Time it was a condition: whoever will disturb or

interrupt us – you will renounce him forever. They were discussing inside, Rama

and Kal, and Durvasa rishi came for something so Lakshman has to go inside.

Rama immediately renounce him. he went to the Sarayu river and just

disappeared. They are saying – 5 elements dissolved in their source and he

could seen no more. And first time He spoke through Shri Krishna: there is no

record that Kal spoke himself before. Never ever, and no one also said that Kal

can be known by yogis – it’s historical thing.

what about Rama and Ravana?

Guruji: Rama provoked. Just tell me one thing: if the beautiful girl will propose you – if you don’t like her, you can always say “no”. but you will not go to the length of cutting her nose and ears.

but why he did this?

Guruji: when Ravana defeat everyone – he defeat Rama’s ancestor in a dwell and before dyeing he cursed him that my descendant will kill you in the battle. It was family vendetta. Without provocation nothing happens.

RAMA & RAVANA

why Vibhishana betrayed Ravana?

Guruji: for his throne and his wife – what else?

but he is immortal now?

Guruji: he was already immortal then

but he is in the list of 7 chiranjivis?

Guruji: yes, that is an example that

Brother never should be like Vibhishana.

Son should be like Ashwatthaman.

And the Guru should be like Vyasa;

maternal uncle should be like Kripacharya,

the keeper of the word should be like Parashurama – he kept his word.

And powerful person, with all the power to control his mind – he should be like Hanuman.

The power of righteousness should be like king Bali.

so he is an example like people must not behave?

Guruji: yes. Here is a common story that when Ravana was dying Rama went to him. And he asked: by family lineage you’re far more superior than me – you’re direct grandson of Brahma; our crown is made of gold – but whole your Lanka is made of gold; you’re the real wise man – nobody is near to your wisdom; then how I was able to defeat you? And Ravana said: Rama, your brother was supporting you – but my brother was not supporting me, that’s why you won. There’s wisdom here.

KRISHNA AND RAMA

Why in the Gita it is said: that even women, even shudras will reach?

Guruji: Because they are talking about vedic times: that was a changeover period. Remember – Krishna was the greatest lover and respecting ladies. No match with him! And we’re living in His area. Just take a look: he was teasing them to the limit; when they were taking a bath in the river – he even took away their clothes and didn’t give them back till they came out naked; he made them pose also – then only; but not a single girl complained about him. That’s the power of Him: he was one of the greatest personalities.

But he was an avatar as a small kid.

Guruji: H e did very great things even as a kid. And his sense of humor is incomparable: a humped woman was going in Mathura with some ornaments and paste of the sandalwood to the Kansa and he would say: oh, your beauty is enough to influence all the three worlds – where are you going, o beauty? And she became so happy – and gave everything to him. Of course – by his power he made her most beautiful also. Which avatar can have such a sense of humor? He was amazing. I’m happy – I’m living in his area. Not a single complaint, and nobody criticized him for that. Radha Ji was married to another man; – and she worshiped him equally. Where else will you find such displays of love? Nowhere in the world. Everybody is running away from women.

Even Draupadi envied Rukmini – how can she become his wife?

Guruji: But there is no record that his wives were jealous amongst each other. And he gave us Gita as well.

But as I understand – his sons, like Samba and others: they tried to copy his behavior – but there is no comparison?

Guruji: That tells us the great thing: we should never copy. We should be our own selves – that’s the main point.

Why did Krishna have such a great number of wives and Rama – just one?

Guruji: And so many controversies are with Rama – but never with Krishna (smiling). One time one American came; and he started a discussion on Krishna: “You consider Krishna as god?” I said – yes, he is our god. “How can you consider him as a god – he is a womanizer, he married 16000 times, how???” I said: the very fact he married 16000 times proves – he is a god! Only a god can do that (smiling) – that silenced him. And he had 10 sons and 1 daughter from each – only a god can do that! Absolute zero controversy with Shri Krishna!

But Krishna and Rama – they represent the same power?

Guruji: No, Rama’s point was just for Ravana. Krishna’s work was much more different.

Does there exist some other personality in history like Shri Krishna – who was not criticized by others?

Guruji: Only Shri Krishna. Everybody is criticized. Even till today – nobody is criticizing him. But on Rama everybody is analyzing intellectually – why he did this and that, he shouldn’t have done it; but with Shri Krishna – nothing controversial. Rama removed aliens from the Earth: so that humanity will become stronger. His work was much more difficult.

Rama’s country didn’t suffer from the war: he was using the power of monkeys?

Guruji: But then – maybe his country was not powerful enough to fight with rakshasas. They were human beings.

But his people didn't even appreciate – how much he did for them!

Guruji: That is human nature – to criticize everybody. But with Shri Krishna – no.

Because he killed them?

Guruji: (smiling) Even after – much later no one criticizes. Most romantic avatar.

What about his childhood – when the neighbor came to him and criticized him and his mother?

Guruji: O nly to the mother: because he was criticized – why didn't he come to our house? That is another point: they were jealous that he came to her house – he never came to their house. That’s a very different competition! Why did we provide 50,000 trees to monkeys? Any krishnait should know! When Krishna was stealing the butter – either he was sharing with cowherds-boys or with monkeys. Even if he was giving butter to monkeys; I’m just providing 50,000 trees to them. Maybe that’s why Babaji told us that Gita – is your book: read 1 chapter every day! And we’re doing that.

As You said: Parabrahman is superconsciousness; what is the meaning of Parameshwar?

Guruji: Nearly the same

is it true that Bagalamukhi could even paralyze the planets?

Guruji: if your own power is that much to use it – why not? It could be – stop the movement of any planet or star.

that was Ravana doing, when Indrajit was born?

Guruji: nobody exactly knows what Ravana was doing. Another important question – you should have your chronological order very specifically. Ravana was killed before Sati. That means it is not like that. Sati was born after. Daksha yagya happen after Rama and Ravana- it happen after Ravana died. You need to fix time correctly. He lived 11 billion years – it’s very long time. Even 311 years sounds great. Oh, don’t worry – anyway your spirit is immortal( laughing).

CAUSE OF RAMAYANA

Guruji: what was the cause of Ramayana?

Q: a woman?

Guruji: (smiling) they are the cause of everything, no doubt.

But: recently there was a story – there was a great son, his name was Shravan Kumar. He was carrying his lame and old mother and father on this thing – in hindi we call it banegi. He was carrying them on his shoulders. They asked him: please, take us to all the holy places of India. They were blind and they couldn’t walk – they were so old. When they cross my hometown, Gwalior, Shravan Kumar suddenly enlightened and said that you’re grabbing my youth and this and that; maybe the land was not so good – so the son became to criticize his own parents. But I think that he was so angry and wanted to say – why you were waiting so long, becoming blind and lame and only then you ask me to bring you to all the holy places? You should have done it in your youth. Then what happen: they go forward, Shravan Kumar said – I’m sorry- when they crossing the Chambal river. Then they ask him: we are thirsty, so please, bring us water. he put them in one place and took a pot and fill it from the river – and the sound was come like elephant is drinking water. the king Dasharatha was sitting there, he was hunting, thought, the elephant is drinking water – so he shot his arrow. And this son died with this pot. When his parents hear, that their son is died, they cursed Dasharatha – that you will also suffer the separation from your son. And they created a fire and burn themselves. That was the core reason of the Ramayana begin. Dasharatha was to be separated from Rama, then Ravana came, and Sita was kidnapped, Rama shows his valor and came there, kill Ravana on Lanka and brought back his wife – all history was full of tragedy and adventure. But my point is: if the father and mother of Shravan Kumar would have gone to the holy places when they were young – not blind, not lame, not so old; then nothing could have happen. That was the beginning of Ramayana.

If it is friendship- then there should be no money, status or political should come between the friends. Friend will be a friend. This is lesson number one.(concerns king Drupada and Dronacharya) Second lesson – if you want to visit holy places, do it, when you’re young. Don’t ask your son or somebody to carry you over.