What immortality is: kinds, purpose and the pure-energy body

There are two achievements. I have described them in my ‘Flowers and Thorns’ . One is to establish the identity of the spirit so that it continues to take on different bodies but the identity remains the same. And the other one is to achieve that individual identity while retaining the same physical body permanently. That is the difference.

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The only thing which we Yogis recognized is that the body has enough potential to become immortal. Everybody has a chance to attain immortality if he will go through the yogic path successfully. And also I will say that Babaji is immortal and He has given us His techniques, so there might be the secret of immortality hidden in this also. It’s open to everybody with whom it may click.

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‘Yoga’ means union. So maybe some secret is hidden in the technique to form the permanent union of the spirit and the body.

What is separation of the spirit from the physical body? If you are able to somehow form the union, the permanent union between the spirit and the body you are immortal then. Maybe yoga is the only science which describes this. And it is an open field to anybody whoever is successful.

It will lead to the direct connection with the spirit and then you begin to understand the true nature of your spirit and the nature of body, it will be easy for you to form the union.

Q: Does the spirit shapes the body in a way that it becomes immortal?

Sh: Here I can just say that the spirit also badly needs a body that’s why they keep on taking new bodies. So the trick is to develop your body to a level that the spirit is not ready to leave it.

It is very rare to see a young healthy person die — death is not associated with youth: it should be some disease or an accident otherwise naturally it is impossible for a young man or a young girl to die. That’s why so many techniques, so many schools came up to preserve the youth. Preserving youth means preserving life. And I have never seen a person who likes to grow old. To want to grow old is not healthy. If somehow you are able to make it permanently suitable for the spirit to live inside, why will it go?

Actually the spirit is already mature that is why it leaves. Leaving is the sign of the immaturity of the body. But we need our body to remain young looking with a mature spirit inside. There should be a proper combination of youthfulness and maturity only then you will meet a wise person. Otherwise simply being old is not a sign of wisdom.

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To live disease-free without the worry of aging — it will give you a very great chance to explore the nature. Because nature is enough new. Every moment it’s new.

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Q: But you also said that immortality is only given for some purpose by Shiva or Dattatreya .

Sh: When you practice to a certain level, surely you will draw their attention to yourself and they might help.

Q: Would it be the immortality in this physical body?

Sh: Yes, your spirit is already immortal. When somebody is talking about immortality that means the immortality of the physical body.

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Q: Well, they also speak about the first level of immortality which begins if the person doesn’t lose the self identification during the death experience.

Sh: It is establishing your identity permanently. With every body, every birth you keep on changing your identity. So once you establish it no matter how many bodies you take, the identity will remain the same.

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Q: Is the identity destroyed as a mental construction during death?

Sh: Only the physical body is destroyed there the ego goes on. And you see when they take another birth a new identity will be created for them. So he will forget about his past identities they will create a new one as his only identity. But if your identity is strong no matter how many births you take you will remember everything. There will be no break in between.

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The main problem is with every incarnation you change your identity. The major thing is the identity crisis. So if you are able to establish your identity then no matter how many bodies you take — your identity will remain the same. No matter becoming immortal or getting liberation .

Q: So once reached, once overcome this identity crisis never comes back?

Sh: No way.

Q: Even for a little child still remembers all his previous births.

Sh: His identity he has come with — then he will remember everything.

Q: So is it so that then going through once established identity and taking a new birth, still a person commits certain acts and go with certain karma to face the results or that?

Sh: Not possible after that.

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I will remind you of one shloka in Gita and I think in 7th chapter in the end. Krishna is saying that if you will try to ward off old age and death you will know me essentially. Essentially you will get real wisdom. So that means that to know time and to know Krishna as time you must first try to ward off old age and death then only you will discover the real secret of Krishna or time. He is simply giving us a way.

Immortality means you are able to stop old age and successfully stopping death also. So may be it is one kind of liberation which they are writing so much in different books. If you try to stop old age you will learn and discover so many things about yourself, it will help in your self realization. It will make you study your system more deeply.

And to stop death you will have to study what is death first. And by discovering what is death you will at the same time discover what is life also. You will become a wise man.

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We should keep in mind that our whole life, our breath, food whatever and everything we have is completely dependent on the Earth. So the basic power of the earth element, in my opinion it is Kundalini Shakti. When she is awakened, she pierces the five elements like a rosary/garland and will thread them. And whoever's Kundalini Shakti is awakened, that person will become immortal, because the five elements of his body will be bound by his earth element. They will not be scattered too. He will get immense life force. His body will become new. And the scholars who want to read about this - Authentic and absolutely real description that we can believe. They should study Gyaneshwari which was described by Saint Gyaneshwar in 21 days. In it he has described The Kundalini Awakening in gradual steps and described the results very well.

And he was a great yogi, a great saint. His word is truth to us and authentic for us. Definitely study it. Connection of all power, with the power of the earth element and the planet earth somehow. Is actually the real awakening of Kundalini power. If the basic power of the earth element is awakened, then your earthly body will be immortal forever. Who can kill the one whom Bhudevi( Mother Earth) will accept as her own? "Jako rakhe saiyan maar sake na koi, baal na banka kar sake, jo jag bairi hoye." Also you will remain in mother's lap forever. If mother Earth accepts as a son. You people should research on it. Think a little on it. So Share something with us too, if you have any new information. Do research without fail.

The very process of development is extremely exciting. There are two types of tragedy: when you’re trying to achieve something and you fail; and another type – when you’re trying to achieve something and you achieve. It will leave you empty and anticipating next steps: what to do?

But on can set another goal, find another toy?

Guruji: Or another horizon, yes

Isn’t it what immortals with unlimited future do?

Guruji: It is very difficult for us, mortals, to imagine their mental state and frame.

Imagine a person, who is not afraid of anything, doesn’t need anything – what keeps them motivated? That is the big question. What are they doing?

the tiredness of seeing the passing years settles in any mortal?

Guruji: thanks to the vampires movies. We’ve seen some places of samadhi – Matsyendranath’s samadhi, Bharthari’s samadhi – maybe like vampire’s elders they are keep rocking the time. They will go into samadhi for 500 years or 1000 years then wake up to see what is happening – then again go back there. Could be that.

I don’t think our world and their world intersect?

Guruji: In some very rare cases. They know everything about us and we know nothing about them.

can we say that immortal being has the unlimited quantity of prana?

Guruji: unlimited future.

and prana – it packed in every cell?

Guruji: you’re missing the most important point: the Time itself: if it will not favor you – no immortality. And the sign of Time favoring you – he will grant you unlimited future. Without it – nothing; no matter how much prana you’re storing in your cells. Future has to be there.

future – script of life?

Guruji: you need to create a story. Otherwise what you will do? That’s the point. Becoming immortal is another thing; simply living long enough is more important.

why so?

Guruji: immortal means that you cannot be killed. But living long is also very desirable thing – that you will live 10000 years and be there for 10 centuries – even this is something. One day one Russian asked me: what you will do, if you become immortal? I told him – I will start doing 1000000 mahamudras, it will help pass the time.

immortality for ordinary people is suffering?

Guruji: he will go mad. Let’s hope for extra 20 youthful years – even that will be something.

that people – pranic vampires – could they be very long-lived?

Guruji: of course, they are living long. But even they are not immortal, because they can be killed.

realized yogins like Gorakhnath and Matsyendranath – what about them?

Guruji: they are true immortals. What they are doing – we have no idea.

true immortals cannot die, even if they want to die?

Guruji: but they can go into Samadhi and pass the time. When I was in Benares – I heard a story: they were digging a well for water. when they went about 15 meters – they found a man, sitting in Samadhi. He was very tall – maybe 3 meters tall – dark in color and he was sitting in padmasan. It’s general knowledge in India on grassroots level that sometime people going into Samadhi and were found like this – someone was trying to wake him up.

One man touched his mouth with some iron thing, burned – and he woke up. And he asked one thing: which king is ruling? He was also angry. They said: there is no king now, that is democracy. That man said: oh, the time has gone to this, no more kings. He got up and jump into Ganges – and he was never seen again. And the man, who burn him – his whole family died within a year. It may have happen about 60 years before. Always be careful, if you find such a man.

We heard so many fairy tales: when the man got magic stick – the man sit somewhere and the stick will fight on its behalf. And it will beating too many people.

TRANSFORMATION, STAY WITH A MOTHER

that 8 coils which are depicted – they are after the first awakening, before the 2 nd ?

Guruji: so many people have tried that consciousness can make so different coils or so many things.

but 3,5 coils…

Guruji: OM is also 3,5. That things are highly symbolical: exact also and symbolic also. Think: when the transformation has taken place – mother will introduce you to the father. And concept of immortality and inertion: you’re ready to unite for transformation – but you don’t transform: remain with the Mother forever – that is immortality. Very simple analogy.

it exists the option to be with the father?

Guruji: then you will have to go through the transformation. And you will be separated from the Mother. You can reject transformation, at the same time be with the Mother forever.

if you reject transformation and be with the Mother – you will be still in a human body or not?

Guruji: maybe in a superhuman body, definitely.

and what if you choose to be with the Father?

Guruji: then you will go inert, merge with the ova, Mother Earth, transformation will take place; you will be delivered, separated from the Mother; then she will introduce you to the Father.

but then you will have only spirit or consciousness?

Guruji: no, you may look like a star or a planet. Human shape is better( smiling). We here use to it: don’t know how to behave as a star or a planet.

Father is the same for the all beings?

Guruji: we don’t know – many fathers are there( smiling)

but Mother is the one?

Guruji: for the child; many mothers are also there

You think other planets also can be considered as mothers?

Guruji: no, only Earth is considered as Mother.

in our, solar system?

Guruji: maybe people were right when they was telling that Earth is the center of the Universe.

what is the function of the Moon in this system?

Guruji: in India we know that Moon is our maternal uncle.

TRANSFORMATION, BECOME A STAR

maybe You know some examples when yogi became a star or a planet?

Guruji: you may find – it’s written somewhere in Mahabharata or Harivamsha purana: Krishna went to see Narayana – and they pass through so many stars, they were shine like daylight; they were transformed: so references are there.

but the names of that yogis…?

Guruji: this is not known. You don’t ask the man you see which sperm you were. But I can answer that; which sperm you were? – the lucky one( laughing) very simple answer.

are these achievements – be with the Mother or with the Father – are equally high?

Guruji: when you’re with the Mother – you’re more protected. Always! Protection – who doesn’t want it?

can we say that all immortals reached that state?

Guruji: they refused transformation and choose to stay with the Mother. When a child goes away from mother – the society takes over, father trains him something, and mother is somewhere else and the child is somewhere else. In other case you’re together forever.

how the child can reject transformation?

Guruji: by awakening his consciousness or Kundalini. By becoming wise, by practicing yoga; otherwise I don’t think the things we’re discussing, the idea have ever crossed anyone’s mind. We never read about, no references about this.

so he will communicate with the Mother and say – I will stay with you, I will not transform?

Guruji: he will have to evolve to that level: that he can transform – but doesn’t want.

so poor options in Christianity instead of that…

Guruji: every religion has the same options: heaven or hell. Yoga gives you the third option. And payment for heaven you pay by your virtues and payment for hell – you pay by your sins. That is the currency.

Even Gita says: when your virtues are over – you again fall on the Earth. That means when you have no more virtues to pay to the heaven beings – they kick you off. Like when your money is over – every hotel will kick you out. Same thing.

so heaven is just 5 star hotel somewhere on the beach?

Guruji: where you pay with your virtues. Maybe this name – Havana – started from Heaven( smiling)

You think the great yogis came through that non-transformation?

Guruji: looks like it; if they are immortals – then definitely.

this is the only option to attain immortality?

Guruji: this is the culmination of all options.

what are all others?

Guruji: others are just leading to this point.

YOGA THEN SAMADHI THEN IMMORTALITY

is it possible to change material world and even own physical body without using the physicality – just by the power of the mind or imagination?

Guruji: it is possible. At a certain level.

could it be attained by the practice of Kriya?

Guruji: you will understand the principles of it with practice Kriya yoga

is it possible to know some languages without education just like imagining?

Guruji: your mind develops to the level that you can tune your mind with any mind. What is the language? Just expression of your thoughts. If you’re able to tune your mind with a pygmy – you will learn the language as much as he know.

is it like in bible where it is said that you will understand the all languages?

Guruji: I think yes; - the only thing the audience was very different. Now – much evolved.

is it possible to attain immortality or vajra kaya without samadhi?

Guruji: no.

so samadhi is like the first qualification?

Guruji: opening of your brain. Without brain what you can have? Nothing.

it exist the another way of attaining immortality – without samadhi?

Guruji: even in Ayurveda, when they are talking about treating – preparing mercury and treating – they say only with the samadhi it will actually go to every cell of the body. I think that is very important part of it.

can we say that Samadhi is the expanding of the consciousness to the very wide level?

Guruji: you can call it that.

but when yogin is in Samadhi - he is experiencing the consciousness of other people?

Guruji: that is expansion of your own consciousness: you’re becoming sensitive enough to understand theirs also.

but the feeling of “he is he” and “I am” remains in that?

Guruji: it will be more intense, yes.

so your consciousness is not merging with other consciousnesses?

Guruji: no, but you’re aware of them.

like extra-sensitivity – but the feeling of “I am” remains?

Guruji: more and more.

before – I think that my consciousness in Samadhi will merge with some kind of collective consciousness…

Guruji: no. that will remain your own consciousness. The feeling of being will be very intense and condensed and you will say finally: “yes, I am!” you’re feeling your own expansion beyond your physical limits.

all other practice is just a preparation of the nervous system for that?

Guruji: without preparation nothing will happen.

emotional system will somehow trained for that?

Guruji: actually it will trained simultaneously when you’re practicing to the best of your abilities. What is emotion? Which is in motion. Your mind remains in motion.

Discussion on Void is good; but avoiding the discussion on Void is better.

That’s why we’re practicing yoga: so our mind will develop more and our consciousness will more – so some understanding will develop finally. It’s not an academic subject we can understand by test we pass or school teacher can explain. Much more deeper. 99,9% of your physical body is empty space – but how many people are aware of it? It’s a big subject.

It is your effort to live at a certain space for your privacies: that is a house. House is not solid: it’s just catching a space in a certain way for our own private space. Everybody needs a space.

body is also our privacy?

Guruji: we don’t know that. Whose house it is – bacteria or viruses, we don’t know whom else lives there.

REALIZE THE NATURE OF THE NATURE

What is the consciousness of the mortals – what is their self-identity, how do they feel? What is the self-identity of the immortals?

Guruji: Either they identify themselves with their job or their family line – or their country, or community, or the religion which they are following.

And what about immortals?

Guruji: I have no idea. They have realized their true self, their true identity. And they will always remain separate. A very simple example: when you extract ghee – it will never again be mixed with the milk, it will always remain separate.

Alchemy, alchemical process as a necessary part of achieving immortality – does it have to become a part of yoga practice at a certain time? Will this time come before or after the skill of samadhi? How do alchemical skills help a practitioner?

Guruji: When consciousness is developing – then very different diversified wisdom will come to you, and alchemy is a part of it. It will come when you’re ready to receive it. Whatever I’ve read in Ayurveda, in some very ancient books, for dealing with mercury and sulfur, khechari mudra is given as the most important thing. That means – yoga is the basic way to advance to the level of alchemy successfully. Do you remember my misadventure with Rambabu? He was standing with khechari; it was a big blast – and all the grass behind us burned, but the fire didn’t touch us. Actually, it was pretty shocking for us. There are more mysteries: when you realize your nature – then the nature of nature remains. Alchemy is just a part of it, one of the parts.

From the most practical point of view: is it advisable to start learning and practicing alchemy?

Guruji: There are no schools – all of them are misleading.

But you have started at a certain point, haven’t you?

Guruji: That sadhu in Puri was the first exposure. Let us see what will happen.

THINK – AND IT IS DONE

About other abilities of Babaji, which we can only guess at: we spoke about bringing the base elements of the body to the equilibrium, to the equal proportions.

Guruji: Yes, this is the beginning of immortality.

Does this particular process have any specific name?

Guruji: No, it is the result of a very heavy yoga practice.

Is it mentioned in any of the yogic scriptures?

Guruji: Nowhere, that is my own conclusion.

That ability, which brings the body to the point where atomic disintegration on the cellular level is possible – am I guessing right: a person becomes invisible, becomes larger, or becomes smaller – is it basically operated like that?

Guruji: I think when you’ve realized that the whole world is actually an optic illusion, and your mind has become so powerful that you’re able to create some illusions on your own, it is just like that. Think – and it is done.

In your collection there are cases when you disappeared, when you demonstrated to people you were not there; and when asked – you said it had been just an optical illusion based on tremendous concentration.

Guruji: You see, about becoming invisible: the word in Sanskrit is «antar dhyan» – it means «when your Dhyana has gone inside».

I understood: when you’re able to stop your mental waves for a particular time – people will stop registering your presence there, they will not see you. That was the thing I did – and it actually worked on them.

… except for that case when they looked at you and only your smile was seen – like Cheshire cat?

Guruji: I smiled because I was looking at him – and he saw my teeth, hanging in the air. That was different (laughing).

Was it intentional?

Guruji: No, it just happened.

So it had nothing to do with the balancing of the elements, right?

Guruji: No, nothing.

if we imagine that human beings will disappear from the Earth like dinosaurs?

Guruji: dinosaurs reproduced themselves by laying eggs and first human beings learned how to make an omelet – they eat all the eggs of dinosaurs and that was the end of them. Humans are not laying eggs – so chance is not that.

maybe we will evolving to some another form – we have the very little difference in genome with monkeys, rats and even potatoes; so maybe we will look like walking potatoes?

Guruji: some people look like that even today.

It is just an observation: to become immortal, to have the life eternal – you need to understand the life first. Without understanding life it will not support you. Only when you become immortal you can sit finally and think something. Maybe only then.

I’m still thinking that You said that afterlife is cruel…

Guruji: the moment we take birth we begin to run to meet death. Whole life we’re running and finally we meet her.

I think if I become immortal it will be extremely bored?

Guruji: it’s just a hypothesis, you’ll never know. Our mind started to work very different after becoming immortal. In today’s state of mind it maybe bored but with current mind you will not become immortal also. You drink the blood of the son of god – and the god will drunk your eternal life after your death. Simple formula.

in the physical world we can say that if the person has a lot of money – the more he has more he can control; what is the energy for power and control in spiritual world?

Guruji: in the spiritual world the power of the mind matters. How much your mind is powerful. In spiritual world – money, physical aspects are no more. Your inner power that depends on the power of your mind. That is real power. Even here – if your mind is powerful you will be able to earn enough money for yourself. Weak mind cannot hold anything which is given to him. It will always remain the most powerful thing – the power of your mind.

We discussed, that immortal people get the final mukti or liberation, emancipation: they don’t even need their spirit to keep them alive: because they are connected directly with the source of life, Ishwar himself. In modern language we can sum up: that is the final exorcism for the immortal person, who doesn’t even need his own spirit to possess. Think on that!

even the idea – to live without a spirit is really unique! Nobody tells that it’s even possible

Guruji: but only after they have reached the source of life. Even vampires have something inside.

if realised yogi leaves the body, so his physical body remains like we discussed Yogananda’s case, imperishable for a very long time. Is it possible for some very powerful spirit to possess that body?

Guruji: not possible. Here I will just remind another ancient thing, which not many people saying; as sutras goes: natasya prana utkramanti: his pranas will not go out of the body- they will merge with the source, Ishwar inside his heart, inside the body. So body will become extremely pious and pure, divine: and it is given to the Earth as it is. It is never cremated, such a body. They are powerful so no one can possess them.

IMMORTALITY; VAMPIRES; MYSTICAL STORY; POSSESSION; GHOSTS; ROYAL SMASHAN; BABAJI; YOGANANDA

Guruji, you’re always in Samadhi?

Guruji: I’m in my naturally state.

I’ve noticed: if I’m not talk for a day or two – I’m losing every interest in talking after that. To maintain this interest I’m keep talking.

Eternal life is when you establish identity with your spirit. Then it will be eternal life and knowing exactly – you’re enjoying eternal life. You will change bodies like you change your shirt and continue with all memories and all experiences. Immortality is to remain in one physical body permanently. These are two different things. Immortality is always like wearing the same shirt. But the shirt should be good enough to be like that.

Imagine that your life is like Arabian nights: you need to create very interesting story every night – and you will continue to live. Maybe Arabian nights is carrying the secret of immortality. Spirit is like a king and body is like a bride; if your body create very interesting story and spirit will like it to hear more and more – it continue to live inside. All fairytales are carrying great secrets.

STEP TO IMMORTALITY

See the journey is both ways from subtle we came to gross and from gross we need go to the subtle. Then we will begin to understand what is actually life and consciousness. It is a journey from both sides.

But we couldn’t recognise or understand Prana from the beginning?

No, we can feel it because we are alive so it should be there. But it take quite some actually time to recognise it exactly.

Amazing, a fantastic conclusion, you just triggered the thought:

Take Void as Apana and Time is a Prana, so when with your enough tapas, yoga practice you are able to combine them, their combined force or Shakti will fill every pore of your body. So far only Void is there, then Time also be everywhere, so you have taken a giant step towards immortality.

I think this is a good thing. See that’s how good thoughts come.

Mummification

Guruji: “Some foreign visitors were discussing about witchcraft. Even in witchcraft there are four elements: earth, water, fire, and air. Ultimately it’s some aspect of nature. Whether it’s white magic or black magic, we should have some knowledge about it, and after studying it from an Indian’s perspective, you might be able to understand something else. For example, they have a concept of Devil, and our temples are called deval. Devil is always shown with a trident. Here only Lord Shiva and His associates (śiva gaṇa) carry tridents. Could it be that these things came to oppose the tyranny of established religions, like Vedic?

“The western dominance had grown by the black magic of Merlin the magician. People say he was a good magician, but I’m sure he was a black magician. For the misery of the world the English are mostly responsible, and all that was due to the power of Merlin. This is also becoming very clear.

“We made a new discovery about pyramids 2-3 days back. I was researching what was the original Egyptian word for pyramids, because ‘pyramids’ is an English word. Found out that the original word is phir-aamid, which literally means to come back again, back on Earth. It seems all the mummies were wait to return to the world. These idiots disrupted their plan by digging them up.”

“Do you think they would have been able to come back?”

Guruji: “Who knows? Why would they keep an identity intact for such a long time otherwise.

“Indian system of mummification is very elaborate, but also simple. It is not part of Ayurveda – only yogis know about it. The body remains intact for a very long time – it doesn’t disintegrate. And with that, the personality in the astral or subtle body becomes very strong. This is also a technique to remain on Earth. That’s why my attention was drawn towards this: Why so much emphasis to remain on Earth as long as possible? She is the Paramātmā, the Supreme Soul.”

ENERGY AND ATOMS

about atoms and energy: we have a lot of atoms…

Guruji: that simply tells me that you’re powerhouse of energy. If somehow you’re able to access all that force of your atoms, which maybe billions and trillions inside

is every atom has the same quantity of energy?

Guruji: yes. One atom will express its energy – it will start a chain reaction. This is what eminent scientists tell you.

but the body will be no more in that case?

Guruji: it will transform into pure energy.

but different chemical elements have different quantity of the energy – if we put them into reactor?

Guruji: yes, but whatever: if you reach the nucleus – you will find energy, whatever atom of chemical element you will take

HOPING FOR IMMORTALITY

what do You think: for the maximum development of the consciousness and imagination – which type of science should be studied?

Guruji: every. You should be aware of everything. You should be aware of the general fundamental(smiling) things. When you will keep provide funds to the Guru - Guru will not become fundamental.

one of the main lines of the science is to create the artificial intelligence and to transform the human DNA to the binary code; could it be the way to humanity to attain something like immortality?

Guruji: I’m surprised that we are artificial intelligence ourselves: and we are trying to create the other artificial intelligence.

why we are the artificial intelligence?

Guruji: somebody created it. So we will also do something. But remember: artificial will remain artificial. Artificial thing will always remain artificial – it will never be a piece of art.

so You think for the normal person there is no chance to attain immortality even like that?

Guruji: all the possibilities are inside: it is up to him how he or she will make them possible. Immortality is the very big thing: I think even 20-30 extra youthful years will be very well. Step by step.

what do You think: can humanity create something like a diamond body – very stable and very long-lived?

Guruji: if you can just your body cells with plastic cells – you will live. Plastic body is better than diamond body(smiling)

is it possible for that plastic body to be the immortal idiot for centuries?

Guruji: we’re just giving the possibility: idiot will never be able to access it, but the intelligent person may access. It is just like a test. That means – all of us are actually fools. Wisdom begins from the moment you realized that you’re an idiot.

so You think after hundreds or thousands of years all the humans cannot be replicated to the plastic ones?

Guruji: I will give you the different idea; what is our breeding program? you just carrying forward our genetic records, hoping that some principles of immortality maybe discovered and that genetic record, which is carrying forward, may become immortal. There is a possibility for everyone: think in a very positive way. So keep carrying forward your genetic record: maybe one day.

is the consciousness just the coded energy, coming to be like the physical one?

Guruji: consciousness may be your soul – is the only energy which you have.

can we say that body is like gross consciousness?

so we have three paths to immortality: yoga, aghora and Shri Vidya?

Guruji: you can say it, yes.

it exists some more paths?

Guruji: not to my knowledge.

FUTURE FOR THE IMMORTALS

it exists such thing like coincidence?

Guruji: no. when the planetary situation is exactly in tune with your karmic results – you will be put to continue mahadashayou died before. Even Matsyendranath talks about planets. Planets show the results you are having.

we are moving in time only in one direction; but maybe the Time itself is just stable or rotating somewhere?

Guruji: kaal ukritika kshati(???)– time is playing with us and just moving on. This is what some wisemen have said in Hindi. So we need to find more options instead of going in one direction. Kriya yoga will provide us at least some understanding.

if the yogi will attain immortality – he will break the chain of this direction?

Guruji: we have discussed in Gorakhbodh: maybe he will have to create his own future. That takes tremendous amount of imagination. Immortality doesn’t mean that if physically you have become immortal, if you don’t have a future – you won’t exist. At the same time you need a proper physicality of it; and also the ability to create the extraordinary future for you and to be able to do it continuously. Otherwise, where you will exist? If there no future for you. That is a catch point in attaining immortality. If someone is attaining immortality – that goes without saying, he is much wiser and intelligent than a layman; so he maybe able to parted in the future of others also. That will be for him much easier thing to do; the immortal person might be moving over the waves of others’ people future – maybe sharing also with them. it’s my theory: at the same time creating a future for himself.

could it be that some objects are transparent for the Time and time are just passing through them?

Guruji: yes, they are absorbing Time – so they will become immortal.

when in Gorakhbodh You told that some spirits may become immortal and the Time becomes to be the food for them?

Guruji: they start feeding on Time, yes: I mean they start to absorb it instead of reflecting it.

If you see the very old man and the very old lady, sitting by the roadside or under a tree – with a lame ox, whose one horn is also broken: stop your car, come down, offer your pranam to them- and go; they must be Shiva and Shakti and Nandi. Usually they move like this and sometime they are seen like that. But don’t go near until unless they become you to come; maintain your distance, offer your pranam; if they look at you – your life is made. But don’t disturb them at all.

what happens when yogi achieves these eight drops of ojas?

Guruji: this is first step of becoming immortal. Because as long as it will remain – the jiva will not leave. Prana will live always satisfied inside your heart.

when yogi have these eight drops – he could have higher practice?

Guruji: well, he will become immortal and he will have eternity to practice whatever he wants to practice. Once ojas is there – it will remain stable.

why it can’t be more – ten drops for example?

Guruji: eight drops are one Anjali( palm ). That’s why only eight siddhi are described: one drop is one siddhi. It’s physical substance, not metaphorical notion. Like some kind of liquid.

and how you can lost ojas?

Guruji: if you’re able to create it – it is never lost. But to reach that level to be able to create – that’s the main problem.

If the sound of nada is eternal and five elements are immortal, what gives immortality to the physical body? Maybe the balance of 5 elements and the interest of our atma or something else?

A: As long as there is atma inside, there is life. And when atma goes away from the body, life is no more there. So, it is up to you to create some interest in your atma, so it will agree to stay inside your physical body. Continuously, forever, for a very long-long time. So here your creativity is actually tested. How much you are able to create interest in your atma, so it will remain together forever. It’s up to you.

what is vagbhava bija and kurch bija?

Guruji: vagbhava bija is the seed mantra of Saraswati and kurch is also connected with that.

sadhaka could make the fire cool and the water fixed – what does it mean?

Guruji: it’s very significant: the fire in the body – he should cool it down. And the water, contained in your body – he should make it stable, - then only you can hope to remain living for centuries.

again it’s all connected to Hatha Yoga Pradipika

Guruji: that is the basic thing. Until unless you go through it – you have not going to understand any text. But I think – these are for very rare people, it is very easy for people to believe that if they drink the blood of the son of the god – they will go directly to heaven. Simpliest way. But if they will be asked to go through so many complicated things to study – who will like it?

ISHWAR

The immortal bodies: they don't need to eat, sleep?

Guruji: Maybe; it’s up to them, it is their decision.

The electrical body – when it will come to the yogi?

Guruji: It will come after the final realisation.

Before you merge with the consciousness of the Earth – you maybe have a semi-immortal body?

Guruji: No, maybe a little bit longer living body.

Another type of eternal life is an application of the spiritual “marker” on your soul. When you are somehow able to stamp your spirit with your own identity. That is as good as immortality. One can keep changing the body but the identity will remain the same, and such souls will continue to learn and observe the creator's creation. And to, cognise His true nature.

The general concept is that the soul is immortal – don’t we consider this to be immortality per se?

G: Souls may be immortal, but what about us? It is their job to give us life for a certain period and take it away.

So, it’s a purely conceptual notion, we don’t consider it to be an everlasting life?

G: Until - unless you are somehow able to stamp your spirit with your true identity, then the story will become different.

What about the legends about bodies, kept by yoginis in a state of hibernation, the bodies which they can use, to come back to it and revive them?

G: It is possible only when such a body has very extraordinary special properties. Only when it had been prepared for this.

Is it possible to create such an incubator while you are somewhere else on business… a separate meat suit waiting for you.? Do you think this really happens?

G: I believe it, yes. I am sure that it is happening, yes.

Where did such legends come from?

THE IMMORTAL CAN STOP BREATH FOR YEARS

is it possible situation if yogi leave his body or die in sahajoli – and then born as a normal person?

Guruji: no, impossible.

because he is nearly immortal in that state?

Guruji: you see, when you have mastered mahamudra – it stops old age and death: you have already achieve this form of longevity. Then you have advanced further.

but could he leave the body deliberately in sahajoli?

Guruji: no – when you were trying so hard you will not leave the body( smiling)

from Gorakhbodh: yogin must stop the breath and establish on the perceiving of the nada?

Guruji: yes

but Gorakhnath is already immortal?

Guruji: that is care in sake of us; if immortal person is breathing – he will guiding you further. How long we, mortals, can stop our breath? The immortal person can stop breath for years.

and he was the only one who know Sanjivani vidya; it was the real immortality?

Guruji: if you can bring dead back to life – that is as good as immortality.

they will be not like zombies?

Guruji: no, in perfect working condition with full memory.

30. BODY IS AN OFFERING

so the body like the mother of the consciousness did all its functions and finally the superconsciousness comes? Which unites with the Time; but is it really needed to quit the body after that?

Guruji: what you will do with that body?

but if it becomes immortal?

Guruji: even then – nirvana is when you leave the immortal body. Read Gorakhbodh again!

if we take two forms of immortality: the first is to live very long in the physical body; and the second is to transform the physical body into electrical body?

Guruji: and third is to establish finally identity of the spirit. No matter how many bodies it will change – you will continue to have your identity.

what about the body? Will it have the function of the supporter of the consciousness in these three forms of immortality?

Guruji: body will always remain the mother of the consciousness. It should be respected from that point.

so even the electrical body will support the consciousness?

Guruji: of course

then why we should offer our body like the sacrifice?

Guruji: it’s poetic way to say it that in the yagya of developing your consciousness and knowing the Time body is the offering. You’re using the body to achieve all these things – it’s a poetic way of saying.

what will happen with someone, who can go through all the processes of the 18 chapters of Gita?

Guruji: he will become immortal and just be free. He will do whatever he want to. That is liberation. As we discussed in Gorakhbodh – Gita maybe the manual instruction for immortal person.

so it’s true realization from all yogic texts?

Guruji: yes. People make it more philosophical then real – but we can see it’s real. I maybe the only one who wrote the commentary on the 7 th chapter – even Shankaracharya avoided that. That means they were not aware of these things.

You mean that shloka about avoiding old age and death?

Guruji: you will no karma being and adhya. If you’re a philosopher – why you want to avoid an old age? And the result of mahamudra describing exactly that way in Hatha Yoga Pradipika – it avoids old age and death. It’s a reality-show, practical problem: you need to understand it and overcome it.

old age is a real problem

Guruji: even medical science recognizes it as a disease; Ayurveda also.

IMMORTALITY VS ETERNAL LIFE;

what is the difference between immortality and eternal life?

Guruji: as a yogi I will say that immortality is continuously living with your physical body without dyeing – that is called immortality. Somehow achieve and train the perfect body so it will not die; by making your spirit your friend and your breath your friend so your spirit will not leave your body when it’s work is over- they will continuously remain in union, that is immortality. Eternal life is: spirits are eternal, beginningless and endless – only thing is for them, maybe, I may be wrong – the identity crisis. Because by taking new body the identity keep changing. So once you have established the identity of the spirit – it will retain all the memories and it will continue to change bodies without gap in the memory; that we will call eternal life. Both are very great and high achievements.

are these final goals of practicing Hatha yoga?

Guruji: Hatha Yoga is another name of Kriya Yoga, we’re one and the same and the main goal is to attain very long life and also to make your subconscious mind conscious. Your consciousness will develop 100% and you will begin to perceive and see the creation and everything from very different point of view – and you will become very wise man, that is the goal of Hatha Yoga.

is there any existing examples of human beings who have realized this two goals?

Guruji: yes, in India we have some legendary figures who already attain it and I’m very optimistic that others also will have attain it. But most of such people love to remain in secret, they never come out openly in public. Let’s hope – there are people like that.

Once someone is able to establish the identity of the spirit – then this identity will remain with spirit continuously forever. That will be the beginning of the eternal life. With every new birth identity is different, but then you will be able to see - you will never die, you’ll simply change the body. Immortality is continuously living in one youthful body – it should remain young forever. Like most of the ancient Nath yogis – like Gorakhnath – they are described like youth of 16. Even Hatha Yoga Pradipika is saying, the yogi becomes like a youth of 16. That is the main result of successful practice of Hatha Yoga.

is it possible – not successful result of Hatha Yoga?

Guruji: if you will go about it in the right way with Guru – the result will come. Otherwise they will never record it and never teach it. Quotation from bible: many have chosen, but few succeeds. It’s work plan – always think big, have big ambitions and go for it.

It’s the beauty – that I have no duty to teach yoga everybody. I can say – I don’t want, that’s it.

we can travel a lot but we always coming back home

Guruji: First you need to recognize, where is your home- to which home you want to run, then run. That means to find the real purpose of your life. That’s what we have discussed: your destiny is not your destination. It’s just the road map which will take you to your destination. It’s a little bit complicated – but I think you can understand it.

the body changes immediately after Kundalini rises?

Guruji: step by step process, nothing came suddenly. It takes time and changes very slowly.

Repeating is very important, because human mind by the nature is dismissive - our mind love to dismiss things. Only by repetition something will register in it.

the immortals just passing the eternal life?

Guruji: the immortal being – let’s define, what is being immortal: it’s a permanent union between physical body and the spirit. They will be together forever. Immortality means living indefinitely with your physical body, which become super because it balanced all the 5 elements – 20% each. Now it is not balanced. Eternal life is – when identity of the spirit is established in particular way, very strongly. Then it will continue to change the bodies but it will retain its original identity and will continue to learn or experience whatever it wants to experience. If you become immortal, spirit will decide to stay in that particular physical body and it is not going to change it. In eternal life spirit will realize it’s true identity and it may continue to change physical body as many times as it wants, but the identity will remain the same. It’s a big difference. Let’s say it s yoga – the final union of the spirit and the physical body. That will take you to immortality. I think everybody has this potential. We all has this possibility inside us; but then again it depends on great luck and grace from very high being.

When the person becomes immortal – he realizes the illusion of the creation and then become powerful enough to create the illusion for himself. It will be his free will. I think only immortal being is in a situation to exercise his free will. We don’t have the free will – it ‘s under so much different powers. Our will is affected by so many situations, so many different things. But immortal persons – they have free will. They can decide and do anything they want.

So many philosophers have come thorough the same words – that world is not true, it is an illusion. And none of them was immortal. Earth is 4billion plus years old, as scientists tell us. A person, who maybe living for 100 years or 50 years stands to claim – this is not real. Never be such a man. He is not in a position to judge a being who is more than 4 billion years old. 50 or 100 years old man cannot say – this is not real. As a yogi I must tell you, it is our work to find the truth – about what is real. Use your common sense.

the experience of death is also preparation for something higher?

Guruji: other side of life. Remember, what Matsyendranath is telling for Gorakhnath: attaining immortality is still gross achievement; knowledge and experience of subtle world still remains. We all have to keep it in mind. If we’re going to relax after we have achieved anything – it is better to learn how to relax now, before achieving anything. Because the result is the same – relaxation.

IMMORTALITY IS THE HIGHEST FORM OF PROSPERITY

does Shri Vidya tradition exists now? It leads to immortality also, like yoga path?

Guruji: shri means prosperity. And only immortality is considered as the highest form of prosperity. Whichever abhyas or vidya or art can grant it – it is called Shri Vidya.

so it’s another name for the yoga?

Guruji: of course. When we will begin discuss Hridaya Yoginin – you will see all the ten mudras describing there. ancient yogis were highly evolved people. Some time they give intently the misdirection. normal person or scholar will never understand, what they were trying to say. Most of these books are like reference books. They’re not like manuals or something. Those, who were initiated by the real master – they will understand it very easily. For others – it will remain confusion and mistake.

PRODUCE LIFE INSIDE YOUR BODY

In “Amaraughashasana”: men take the path of bindu and the women take the path of rajas – what does it describe?

Guruji: It’s about urdhvaretas state.

Is it the final cut after amrita will come?

Guruji: It’s the final cut before amrita will come. So instead of producing a life outside of the body you begin to produce life inside your body: that will reverse everything.

What do You think: that producing a child is like another chance if you cannot achieve immortality?

Guruji: That is like carrying forward your genetic records. The world is created for breeding. Whoever did it – was very intelligent.

Gorakhnath was created not like a normal human being; but in Gorakhbodh they were talking about immortality – so did he also have all these stages like a normal human when he practiced yoga?

Guruji: I don’t think so: he never went through what normal human beings are going through. But Matsyendranath gave him the wisdom about life.

So he was not needed to overcome the physical limitations – from the beginning he was another?

Guruji: Yes; Matsyendranath is saying: you need to cross over the ocean of the samsara – even though you’re immortal. The wisdom beyond remains.

Yes, I remember the story when Gorakhnath used mercury and attained a diamond body – and then Matsyendranath reminded him…

Guruji: Yes; not diamond – electrical body. Vajra kaya most people translate it as “diamond body”.

Guruji, what do You think: the ability of taking any shape – it’s an ability of the electrical body?

Guruji: Magic. There are stories about 1000 years old cobras and some super beings – like Hanuman and others. Gorakhnath is also known for taking different shapes – whatever he wanted.

When this ability is described in yogic texts – they are talking about the astral body?

Guruji: They are always talking about the physical one.

that two liquids – ojas and amrita, they are differ from each other?

Guruji: of course it should be different.

diamond body forms after amrita?

Guruji: yes, electric body. Vajra kaya

generally is translated as diamond body. But vajra also means thunderbolt. When

your 100% brain will wake up – you will be pure electricity. That will be

vajra kaya. Only electromagnetic charges will appear as body. Fantastic thing!

looking like “Matrix” or comics

Guruji: that’s why reading comics is very

good thing.

They say

that energy cannot be created and cannot be destroyed. It means very simple to me: that if

you’re able to transform your body, physical body into the pure form of energy

– it will become beginningless and endless, as pure energy; that is as good as

immortality. You will become endless, forever, eternal; and so many

possibilities you will begin to see after that.

We discussed that immortal people actually get the final mukti, liberation, emancipation. They don't even need their spirit to give them life because they are connected directly with the source of life, Ishwar himself. So, in modern language we can sum up, that is a final exorption for an immortal person who doesn't even need his own spirit to possess. Think on that.

* * * * * *

Q: “Guruji, I read the first chapter of jñāna khaṇḍa. It’s amazing! There’s an argument in there that as long as there are responsibilities a man can never be happy.”

Guruji: “These are great discussions of great people. And see, immortal beings are discussing! Can you imagine their point of view, how far would that be?

“In a way, the only emancipated person is the one who is immortal. Since everybody depends on Earth, from gods to a common man, an immortal man can do anything they desire. They are totally free. They don’t have to worry about changing their form, and nobody can cause them any harm either. Once Mother accepts you as her own, nobody can harm you in the entire world, because Earth is everywhere. It’s a marvelous and very significant concept.

“Immortal beings must be the most relaxed people on Earth.”

Carbon. Oxygen. Sulfur. Immortality.

… you are exhaling carbon dioxide. Inhaling oxygen. If somehow with yoga practice you will be able to change it – then you began to inhale carbon dioxide and exhale oxygen – you may become immortal.

Q: but how?

Guruji: you’re already practicing it, it’s a matter of time. And holding breath means what? – you’re taking in oxygen, in the lungs it is changing into carbon dioxide. The more long period you’re able to hold that – it means it will create a sort of tolerance inside your body for carbon dioxide. And carbon, as you know, is a basis of life. When you’re breathing out – you breathing out our life essence. You will become like a tree. Trees taking carbon dioxide and exhaling oxygen.

Q: I want to understand the chemical process…

Guruji: chemical process is impossible to explain, because it is extremely rare phenomena, scientists will note it as a magic. They know nothing about yoga.

Q: but on a grass root level, can you explain how it works?

Guruji: first you need to develop a sort of tolerance for carbon dioxide – the holding of breath is something different. Also slowing down your breathing pattern will be on great level. I keep saying that from 17-24 breaths in one minute, and if you are able to slow down for 4-5 breaths in one minute – that means you’re already developing the tolerance level. Even less – more better.

Q: can you give us the chemical explanation?

Guruji: chemical explanation is very hard for people, never studying chemistry, but what is the biggest source of oxygen in your body? In water, which is 71% of your body 2 portions are hydrogen and 1 portion is oxygen. So by doing this the water in your body will be not like normal water. The oxygen content of your water will go away. And all the hydrogen will remain and you will begin to levitate by the power of hydrogen. Your body will become extremely light. And remember: oxygen is the real spur for growing old. Oxidation.

Q: let’s take erythrocyte – they are work like the taxi…

Guruji: that’s why in Samadhi the blood circulation stops, because oxygen is not needed. Not need a taxi.

Q: they are taking oxygen from the lungs and take it to the cells and then take the carbon dioxide back to the lungs to breathe out. As for me, cells needs oxygen – it’s like something necessary for the process which go inside.

Guruji: you see, it is just a matter of program your cells exercise, the oxygen. If you are able to change the program in your cells – maybe different story will begin. And most of the scientists have discovered, that growing old is because of oxidation. The less oxygen inside you – the younger you will remain. The oxygen is the real killer. You’re actually keeping oxygen in your water content – that is the only reason you are breathing. If you don’t need to keep that level of oxygen inside your body – than you don’t breathe like a normal person. What maybe the reason for immortality? Hydrogen sulfide is your brain. If there is enough hydrogen sulfide – you will get hibernation. Most of the animals who are hibernate have the high content of hydrogen sulfide in their brain. What is sulfur? They are discovered it, but I think until unless body can’t do it itself – outside sulfur will not help. So less oxygen, more hydrogen, then convert it to hydrogen sulfide – it will be more concentrate in your brain and you will be able to hibernate for very long period, so it will lead to immortality – this is scientific thing.

Take it practically. Yoga is a practical science. In Hatha Yoga Pradipika, the result of every mudra, that it stops aging and death . We take it literally.

As we are able to do the technique exactly, then those results will come. If the results are not coming, then the mistake is ours. It's understanding of the technical aspect or whatever. Or we can blame the instructor that that buster didn't teach us. That is the easiest way to do.

But I have read almost every ancient yoga text, naths yoga, every yoga text. They are all pointing towards immortality. And they cannot discuss it metaphorically. It's the real thing. Whether immortal or we remain mortal, that's not the point. The point is to have a very big dream. And to follow it.

What is emancipation? Yogis discuss emancipation in two different ways.

One is that kind about which it is said that this was last time that he was born. This means that he didn’t at all die after his birth and attained immortality together with his body.

The other form which is affirmed by yogis is like this. Atman (soul) is immortal but identity of soul changes in every life. After begetting knowledge of Atman by means of practicing yoga, its identity is confirmed and even while taking several births at will, the original identify remains confirmed and is always recognized.

The first form of emancipation, I affirm again, is possible only by the blessings of Lord Shiva and by blessings of Lord Dattatreya; the guru of all gurus because they are the founders of yoga vidya.

The other form of emancipation can be attained by performing intense penance and by the grace of yogi guru in these traditions.

Yoga has only these two forms of emancipation to offer.

“If spirit accepts you as a friend, it agrees to stay with you forever; it will not leave the body — and that is called immortality.”

* * *

I read a comics – you see I am more impressed by comics than religious books. There was a story about ‘Kalif Harun Al Rasheed’ from Arabian nights. He is meeting the lord of dream Morpheus. And they are having some discussion. He says: “I want to be immortalized, I want to be immortal”. The dream lord says: “Okay, I will make you immortal”. He said: “How?” and the dream lord said: “I will make your story a part of the imagination of the world. It will make you immortal”. It was a fantastic statement and I also believe in that. Yes, if you are a part of imagination of the people, you are immortal.

* * *

Q: Nowadays TV shows are very popular where common people are invited just to show something, but a lot of people are eager just for one minute to be seen by millions. Is it somehow connected with the hidden desire to be immortal?

Sh: Yes, we want to be the part of the memory of humanity.

Q: But is it real immortality?

Sh: Well, if you become a part of the imagination of the humanity, it is as good as immortality.

* * *

Q: Indian people like to be photographed so much in the street. They ask to take a picture of them, even though they obviously know they will never see the picture.

Sh: Because unknowingly they know that it is not just a photograph. It is actually catching and preserving a moment in time. So they are ready for that. That particular moment of their life you will preserve in your record. And even if they will not see, somewhere somebody will definitely see it. It is enough. That’s why movie stars attract us so much. They are privileged to be photographed all the time.

* * *

We all have different ideas about immortality. So they are doing the best they can under the circumstances.