Initiation (diksha, shaktipat) and the five vows

Man: How often a guru can be unhappy because of his disciples?

S: If a disciple doesn’t keep his promises or if he doesn’t practice sincerely, a guru will be unhappy, of course.

Man: If your disciples don’t keep promises, how do you react?

S: My reactions are very different. I can refuse to see this person permanently.

FUNDAMENTAL

what is fundamental thing?

Guruji: that is very serious question: when you’re worrying about funds – from where to accumulate them; in that tension on for getting funds you go mental: then you become fundamental. You keep forgetting one thing: that the word “fund” started with the word “fun”: so when you are become fundamental – no fun remains in your life. Be careful!

what do You think: on one side – we’re giving 5 promises…

Guruji: 5 promises – because it is also understood that the person, who is interested in yoga seriously should be disciplined person. Just to handle the discipline this 5 promises are given.

are they remain after realization?

Guruji: it will remain, because you gave your word to the Guru.

when yogi became realized or on the very high level…

Guruji: then he will be very grateful to the Guru, because he was teaching seriously.

could it be the situation for the yogi that no matter what he is doing…

Guruji: you see the chain: such person will not do something just for doing something. You have to consider this. Because when he will act - he will be able to see the consequences of his act, for the thousand years or 10000 years. Be careful. Now we’re like children: we’re asking money from the father and we think that father is the richest man in the world. Then we grew up and start to make own money – then we realize that is very difficult task to do. Then you become mental and you worrying for funds. You become fundamental.

Guruji: It could be in another dimension or in the future.

If it is in a different dimension – it will never touch us?

Guruji: It may touch.

Does it happen accidentally – if we fall to another dimension?

Guruji: You remind me about one instance recently: about 2 months back some disciple of Pasha Rambabu came- he was about 80 years old and 4-5 people were with him. His son was sick. And in some Bengali book he found a description of yoni mudra: not exact, only the way. It was written that by practicing this mudra all diseases will disappear. Because he was a loving father – he told this thing to this sick boy – maybe he was his grandson: he tried that – and he died. My conclusion was: until or unless the backup of parampara is there – only that will protect. Because you’re invoking your spirit: if it is irritated – it may decide to leave. Do svidaniya. That’s why parampara and Guru are so important. I also gave him a dialogue: he was so much after me – so when my final moment will come what I will say to death? When death comes, you just tell her: now you have come – I’ve spent all my life waiting for you. He went away a little bit happy.

Like in the “Gladiator” movie: when death comes – you should smile at her?

Guruji: What else? You can do nothing else – only smile ( laughing ) what will you do?

DAVAY PRAKTIKUY

do You know about the special group for Russian disciples on facebook – Davay praktikuy?

Guruji: I’ve heard about it

majority of the disciples have the very firm belief that if they will stop practicing – they will have the second chance?

Guruji: (sneezing) – you can take it as my answer(laughing). One very serious thing: when they receive practice – they gave me 5 promises. They broke it. I didn’t brake it from my side. How should I treat them?

what do You think – if they come second time and ask You to forgive them?

Guruji: ok, what I can do if they ask for forgiveness – I will forgive them. But I will not forget them.

will the practice work on them by this second appearing?

Guruji: if they will come with all sincerity and all humbleness and they really realize that they did the big mistake – I think they may have it. But it should not become a habit.

maybe the second chance in next life?

Guruji: no, only one time this life.

That is another point: they came here uninvited, I taught them for free, they are not my customers; so in all sincerity if I’m teaching them – they should respect that.

If they will come and ask to forgive – fine.

that is the greatest generosity of You – that is the biggest chance maybe in several lives…

Guruji: yes, that is true. And still I’m not sure what message from Babaji will come – we’re nearly 2000 now – which is not much of course, but still. In last 35 years nearly 2000 is not much.

so the question – is it right to delete from the group that who are not practicing?

Guruji: no need.

Let them jealous and also we should not feel superior to normal human beings. Anyone can make a mistake but only a fool can make it twice.

For you it will be very interesting thing to observe their life: before they stop practice – what was their life and now after they stop what’s happening.

it was not troubling or disturbing me but it seems to me that they could somehow create the obstacles for that who is really practicing?

Guruji: let it be as a test. Just observe. If you’re doing good and you’re progressing – people will initially definitely criticize you. If people are criticize you – that means you’re on the right track. As I keep saying: nobody dare to criticize the mafia boss – they only criticize good people, even God. When some people are criticizing you – you can say thank you for remembering me.

again it’s the biggest generosity from You… if someone was practicing Kriya in another lineage but after many years understand – this is not true; will You accept such person?

Guruji: I’ve accepted so many people like that. Because if you will do deep enough research in different lineages – most of them are self-claimed lineages. It is normal thing, which happen. Before founding my Guru I also went around, expose to many fake people – Paramahamsa Atmananda also belongs to that. It’s just a search.

I’m very happy to sit here with You and Your students and hope one day I will ask You?

Guruji: yes, dig enough, keep research. I see so many things go around in the name of Kriya yoga which maybe no good for the sincere seeker – but I’ll not judge.

when I’ll ask You for Kriya practice – I will need to practice daily, two times a day?

Guruji: you see, it is the very serious commitment.

From the beginning it is 5 promises or 5 vows which we take:

I will keep this Kriya secret

I will practice it all my life

I will read 1 chapter of Gita every day

I will respect married woman married to another man as a mother or I will respect married man married to another woman as a father

Till I travelling, being sick or facing any emergency I will remember this Kriya mentally

For any sincere people they are very easy to observe. Yes, some question come from a Russian – how I can respect a woman like a mother? I said – it’s your problem.

DIKSHA

why Arjuna was called Gudakesh?

Guruji: he was trained as a warrior – many commanders use to be without sleep about a week or so. As long as it takes.

how to achieve that state?

Guruji: go to army and try to be a commander. That’s why he couldn’t master the yoga. Because Krishna is saying: the yoga is mastered by the one who sleeps regularly and eats regularly. Because he was not sleeping – so he couldn’t master it.

Krishna didn’t give diksha to him?

Guruji: no, nothing. Diksha is the very modern concept. Now there are thousands of Gurus, giving initiation and there are thousands of devotees asking to be initiated. Initiation is the very good English word: you’re initiated into something new, which you don’t know before. It doesn’t mean it’s particular ritual – svaha and all these things. Diksha means teaching an art which you will have to master. Mastering some art is called dakshata; dakshata starts from diksha. To master something, to be an adept in some thing.

I GIVE A DREAM

I think after samadhi our perception are different?

Guruji: much different. Already it is different: you compare yourself – before you started to practice Kriya yoga and after – different person.

but You can give samadhi like Shaktipath, You have that power? I will give it for example for 5 people – and they effectiveness in life will grow?

Guruji: they’re already doing it( smiling). Instead of Shaktipath- I don’t give Shaktipath; I give them a dream: if you will do this – one day you will achieve samadhi and you will know everything; and they are working hard to fulfil that dream. It is as good as Shaktipath.

so they have the way – but no need to make it easier? It’s like a car: you can walk, you can ride a bicycle – but Kriya yoga is a very good car, which make your development faster?

Guruji: it makes your development precise and exact.

it’s already pretty fast for us?

Guruji: no, no need to force it. Too much speed – accidents will happen.

but if we think, how the world lives – I think it needs much more balance. Too much wars…

Guruji: I think the world is getting refine and much better. If you will give a million dollars to a poor man

then they will kill themselves with that money?

Guruji: no! you’re robbing them of their learning process how to make 1 million dollars. That learning is very important.

5 TH PROMISE

why it’s so important to consider another married man as a father?

Guruji: so no bastard will take birth in society

why it’s more important than don’t kill, don’t steal?

Guruji: we are yogis: five promises are enough for us.

if we need to kill – just kill?

Guruji: if it is needed to save your life, then. Otherwise the yogi mind became very powerful and usually they become very peaceful people. Only these 5 promises are important. Rest of the promises – not to kill, not to do this, not to steal – are for religious people. And they’re keep breaking their promises. Again the list gives you so many ideas. If they will not commit sin – for what they ask forgiveness from god? Committing sin is very important for religious people.

what is the danger of bastard?

Guruji: well, they say that bloodline continuation is very important. Bastard is a big problem: the family will lose its prosperity and a new blood will enter into the family line – it creates so many complications. For the spirits of ancestors also – effect goes to that level also. All Mahabharat battle was because of this.

spirits of ancestors not accepting them?

Guruji: even if he will do something – it will not reach them. I think this is a very logical promise.

but this bastard could be a good person also?

Guruji: he could be anything: he maybe a seeker also and he can receive yoga practice also; but we should not disturb the social structure, that’s it.

why the result of his ritual will not reach ancestors?

Guruji: because he’s not in the bloodline – he’s corruption of the family. Not everybody’s like paramahamsa who will say: oh, my grandmother was so good, she was having affair with so many men and that my uncle belong to that man and this my uncle belongs to this man and my father belongs to that man. I think nobody will like to say that. Or: my fathers’ children are playing in many houses of our village. If we are in the society- we should respect some rules of the society. Otherwise anarchy will come. a man, who is not the son of his biological father, of someone else, can be the highest of the highest spiritual level also.

The biggest example – Narada muni and another is Satyakama Jabala. Narada is the only celestial rishi – his mother was serving somewhere and any men were visiting her so Narada was born. When children were playing they taunting him, asking his father’s name. he went to his mother asking: who is my father? You can read about it in Mahabhagavatam purana. And she said truthfully: I don’t know your father’s name, so many men were visiting me. Tell them – you’re my son. Then so many sadhus and holy men also visiting – they began to sit with them, listening to them, talk – and his mind became very different. Finally he reached the highly meditative state of his mind. Then he heard the sound of Narayan, Vishnu: You will not see me in this life, wait; then you will be the one of my greatest devotees next life. He waited all his life – then he died; he was born from a head of the Creator – directly as a rishi. He is still considered as a greatest devotee of Narayana. It doesn’t mean, that being a bastard stop everything for you. But it is a social discipline, which we should honor.

Satyakama Jabala is another example – Jabala was a woman, also so many men was visiting her. Satyakama was born; then he saw another children, going to a rishi for education- he insisted that I must also. Rishi asked him his father’s name – he said I don’t know. Rishi said – go to your mother and ask her. He went to his mother, asking father’s name and she truthfully said – I don’t know. So many men were visiting me – but you’re my son. So tell the rishi you’re son of Jabala. Then he came to rishi and said: my mother doesn’t know the name of my father – but I’m her son and my name is Satyakama Jabala. Rishi is rishi – he said: you’re very high born person- only high born Brahmin can accept this truth. And his name became immortal in vedas, he is great rishi. It doesn’t matter if something happening – you have no options; maybe you have better options. But even then – to honor social discipline we promise this.

IMPOSSIBLE NOT TO SIN

why we give exactly that five promises?

Guruji: only these five promises are important. Rest of the promises – not to kill, not to do this, not to steal – is for religious people. And they keep breaking the promises. If they will not commit sin – from what they will ask forgiveness from god? Committing sin is very important for religious people.

so you could not initiate yourself?

Guruji: impossible. They have my best wishes. Again quotation of Captain Davy Jones: life is cruel. Why the afterlife be otherwise? Most of the people describing spirits all of good mood, full of love – but they will have the very big surprise there – when the day will come definitely. What will remain after Apocalypse? Only ghosts and spirits. Every religion believe in afterlife; if I believe in God – I’m ok, but if I believe in ghost and witches – I’m superstitious- and that is also believe in afterlife. That’s why the main object of talking is to KEEP YOUR MIND VERY OPEN, because subject is very vast, very deep and very mysterious. You cannot discard everything like it’s against my faith and I don’t believe in it. Keep your mind open and have faith in yourself first.

IS IT DIFFICULT TO RECEIVE DIKSHA?

Guruji, the disciples who’ve been getting the practice for years say it was a lot harder for them to receive it than it is for new disciples now. What affects this? Is there any specific criterion for choosing disciples and initiating them into Kriya?

Guruji: If I'm in good mood, I give practice easily. If I'm in bad mood, it's a, "Come next time." Because nowadays many people are coming, they have done lots of research already in it. They are doing good studies and they are going deeper into the subject, so my mood is good. My mood was really bad in those days.

Like when?

Guruji: I mean, let's say about 20 years back or 25 years back. I was using so heavy bad words most of the time.

But you were already in Samadhi in all of these years.

Guruji: The reaction to the situation. Even a person in Samadhi react.

Reaction to external situation?

Guruji: Of course. You have to deal with that even though you may be very knowledgeable, wise person. And if someone is wise and knowledgeable, he will know every single bad word also. And he will be wise enough to know exactly when to use and when not to use. That is wisdom.

Q- Guruji, the practice helps me in my life very much, it gives me some structure and makes my life better. There was a question about the criteria for getting Diksha, and one of them is the stability of the mind. I came into practice with a very unstable mind, but with time, with practice, my mind is becoming more and more stable.

A: That is how it happens with everybody. It takes time for the mind to become stable. You are starting in a very unstable situation. But I’m happy that you are doing good. Carry on with that.

Shaktipat

Shaktipat in terms of alchemical qualities: if a Guru is a philosopher’s stone, touching a disciple, he can make out of this material something which is also transformative and incredible in nature. But it’s too fairytale-ish; the material has to be processed first.

G: The material has to be processed first and simple touch is not enough. Touching has a different meaning here: if the disciple is able to touch the guru’s mind in his seeking, then the transformation may take place. I have seen many people who were initiated into it, there are many groups who “give” the Shaktipat, but have not seen substantial progress or expansion of the consciousness.

Could the knowledge be transferred through such a thing as Shaktipat; do you know of any significant cases that you’ve seen for yourself?

G: Not a single one where the wisdom was transferred. Yes, when guru has said something very wise, and the disciple is practicing to his utmost capacity, after a certain time a student will start to understand the meaning of Guru’s words – so this is as good as Shakti path to me.

Sometimes it is believed that Shaktipat could be granted via a gifted flower, through a sip of water – but it is sounding like the fairytales. Do such forms of Shaktipat exist, in your opinion?

G: I’ve not seen such cases so far. But I think it has a substantial background to it. When you are facing a great being, his very presence may inspire you, move beyond the limits. It is as good as Shaktipat… maybe this is the true Shaktipat instead of just smelling a flower or sipping water. When you see a higher being, whose very presence inspires and leads you on.

Is such inspiration the catalyst of the change?

G: The greatest of the great inspirations is the real Shaktipat. This is what I think.

Do you think that you got the Shaktipat from Babaji?

G: I think so, because simply looking at him was tremendously inspiring. After this meeting the level of self-confidence rose – and it affected my practice. All of it – just from being in his presence. The inspiration comes, and as a result of that ‘Yes, I can also do that’ and you start to do something to achieve the highest of the high goals, this inspiration is the real Shakti path. We, humans, are all miracle seekers, we are all trying to find the easy way to enlightenment, but there is an easy way to success.

Is there such a thing as a miraculous change over night; you’ve been a common guy and the next thing you know some sage or sadhu put his finger between your eyebrows and you suddenly became a realized man..

G: I have never witnessed a sudden change. And I have seen many sadhus with powers and abilities.

SHAKTIPATH, ONLY THE GURU DECIDES

what will happen with unprepared mind if Shaktipat will be put on such person?

Guruji: then the Guru will never do it- or whoever who is capable of it; they will examine carefully, prepare that person – then switch open the mind. That is like switching open. It doesn’t take time to switch on/off: it just a matter of seconds. But you need to prepare all the wiring and everything, and testing before you switch on the current.

but why it is done? If the disciple is ready, he could switch it on himself?

Guruji: no, never.

so it’s must need phenomena?

Guruji: yes, if you’re too much into Shaktipat – then.

but as I understand in Kriya Yoga the person must evolve himself?

Guruji: this is pure yoga and it’s our own personal progress. But Guru’s guidance is important. In our parampara I've never heard about Shaktipat.

then for what it was used in other cases?

Guruji: to give a certain power, no more than that. Even ghost possessing looks like Shaktipat. Maybe some knowing expert in ghosts and spiritualism just putting one spirit inside. It is more likely: because you cannot force wisdom, knowledge: you have to work hard for it. The persons start shaking and crying that something enters them – but it maybe just another ghost, entering your system. Just another spirit in you.

but for the first samadhi Shaktipat is needed?

Guruji: no. It's your own achievement.

it’s like a first flight – very scary experience?

Guruji: look at the birds: they push their children out of the nest so they can fly; mother not supporting them in the air.

so maybe Shaktipat is like that push?

Guruji: no, just another ghost entering your system.